College, Disabilities, and Success

#71 Escaping the Cycle of Self-Doubt at College

July 07, 2022 Mickie Hayes Season 2 Episode 71
College, Disabilities, and Success
#71 Escaping the Cycle of Self-Doubt at College
Show Notes Transcript

Escaping the Cycle of Doubt at College shares research that was done in 2020 from the Journal of Postsecondary Education and Disability called "It's a Constant Fight: Experiences of College Students with Disabilities." In the research, students share their feelings of disempowerment at college, but it also shares instances where they were feeling empowered and accomplished.  Episode 71 also includes snippets from Cathi Allen about transitioning out of high school, Jimmy, an LD student who shares his thoughts about reaching out to faculty, and Charlie Kirkham, a college student with autism who share the importance of establishing peer relationships.  The goal of Episode 71 is to show parents and teachers how they can prepare their teens for college and avoid some of the pitfalls the students in the research experienced.

It's a Constant Fight: Experiences of College Students with Disabilities

Insights From a Disability Specialist - FREE ebook

Wrightslaw 

Autism 102: Finding Your Path with Charlie Kirkham

Jimmy Shares His LD Story 

Frontloading Your Teens Transition Plan with Cathi Allen

Mickie  0:00  

When your child with a disability starts college in the fall, what's your biggest fear? Are you afraid they're going to get in there and fall apart? Are you afraid they're going to get in there and not know what to do? Are you afraid they're going to get in there and fail again? Are you afraid they're going to get in there and continue to hit the same walls that they've hit in the past? Well, today I hope to address some of those fears and questions that you may have. The research study that I'm doing today, it's a constant fight experience of college students with disabilities shares several stories from several students, both the good and the bad. So they talk about the struggles and the walls they've hit and the problems that they've had. And they also talk about the good experiences and the positives and the pluses that have come out of their college experience. So that's what we're going to take a look at today. So welcome to College, Disabilities, and Success, Episode 71. Escaping the Cycle of Self-Doubt and Confusion with Mickie Hayes. The opinions in this podcast are my own, please reach out to your college, physician, or legal services for additional information.

 

Mickie  1:13  

I was excited. Somebody that understands disabilities, and I'm going to go in there and show them my work to get feedback on how I can process this correctly, and how I can get my thoughts out and all that stuff. The only thing she did for me was show me a web and I started crying because I was like, once again, I've been disappointed. How can you advertise writing for disabilities and that person, not be somebody who specializes in that? 

Those are the words of Nora, a young college student who sought help at the Writing Center at her college located at a large public university in the Middle Atlantic region of the United States. Nora was a Disability Services student so she had registered with Disability Services. And she participated in a research study called it's a constant fight experiences of college students with disabilities by Grace L. Francis, Jody M. Duke, Megan Fajita, and Jason C Sutton. And the research was in the Journal of Post Secondary Education and Disability from 2020. When I started reading this research, the first thing that struck me was just how these students have struggled so much not only in the past, through their high school years through their K 12 years, but also as they hit college and didn't find things were better. But as I read the research and read a little further on in the research, they do talk about the empowerment that these students felt at college, so all is not lost. So as I was reading this today, I thought about the issues and the complaints that the students were having, and how those could be addressed. Now, before they get into a college situation. The kids first talked about feeling disempowered, once they started classes at college, and in particular, they mentioned negative experiences, feeling unmotivated, feeling, disrespected, isolated, less worthy, and unvalidated. Now, those are some very, very strong emotions, and I believe heartfelt emotions. So one of the things I'm going to talk about today is how we can avoid those situations happening to begin with. Additionally, they also talked about the positive experiences, the empowerment that they felt as a college student, they were feeling encouraged, satisfied, proud, respected, and accomplished. And those are very, very strong pluses. And it supports the reality that your child with a disability can go to college and can begin to feel empowered, and in control and a capable adult, which is our goal for any student who's in college. If you're a parent of a child with a disability who's thinking about college or heading to college, or if you are a teacher of a student with a disability who's heading to college, this is information that you can share with the student with your child so that they can begin college on a positive encouraging note. And they know what to do to have continuing positive experiences because that's what we want. When I was a high school teacher. I asked my students one day when they were first identified with a learning disability, and I had a handful four or five that were identified early on kindergarten, first grade, they had been in a learning disabilities class all the way through K 12. And into the high school, I had another group of students that were picked up around third or fourth grade, and then another group that was picked up around sixth or seventh grade, Now, third, or fourth grade and sixth or seventh grade, the work starts to get increasingly difficult and challenging. It doesn't mean that disability has suddenly appeared. It just means that they have been handling things and able to address the situations that the teachers were giving them until they hit that wall, that third or fourth grade wall or that sixth or seventh grade wall and the work level and the expectations changed when I started working at the college, I actually had young adults coming to college who hit those same walls that had never been diagnosed with a disability. And when I talked to them, they explained how they had been struggling all their life. And they were going on the assumption that they were older and wiser now we could handle things, and they hit the same walls they hit when they were in the K 12 system. So I think part of the responsibility that we need to look at is to take a closer look at the K 12 system and what exactly the K 12 system is doing to accommodate and support and test and evaluate and assess students who struggle. And I know that presents a lot of unique challenges just based on what I've read, and what I know to be true. And that's the time when parents become much more active in fighting those battles when their children are not getting the services that they should be getting or not getting adequate services. So those are battles that unfortunately have to be taken up in the K 12 system with the K 12, principals, administrators, teachers. And that's the first thing that Nora said before I even gave you her quote at the beginning of this podcast, she said they knew something was wrong, but they put me in a regular third grade class and instruct me in the back of the room, and nobody helped me. So probably some of my difficulties may have come from a lack of proper education, because I wasn't helped. If you would like some information about becoming an advocate for your child, and you're not quite sure how to go about it or how to do it, check out the Rights Law website, I'll put that website in my link. And that should help you with some of the K 12 issues that you are running into with your child. But let's talk about college. Your child made it through high school, graduated, did everything they needed to do and they are going to college. So what can we do to avoid situations like Nora had? Well, first of all, if you've listened to my podcast, one of the things I've preached over and over and over again, is that initial first meeting, and even if you get a chance before you put in the applications to the college, do your homework, do the college visits, talk to Disability Services, disability services are not all created equal at the colleges because colleges follow the ADA guidelines, there is a lot of flexibility in the way they handle support and accommodations. So you need to do your due diligence when you're looking at colleges and if possible, and there's more than one college in your area. And you're helping your child to select that college, check out those Disability Services departments before your child applies. Now I have a handout that I've given to many, many people with questions that you can ask the disability services. When you go to these interviews, there are certain things that you should know and your child should know about how the law and everything changes. And I'll put a link in for the the free ebook questionnaire called insights from a disability specialist so that you can get the list of questions that you should either know the answers to, or ask when you get to that meeting. So step one is do your homework upfront, interview several disability services offices at different colleges and see what their expectations are and how they will support your child. Now, the second thing that you need to consider is that very first initial meeting that you're going to have with Disability Services. Now here's the thing, that initial meeting should be happening right now, it may have already happened, it may be set for the next few weeks. But it should be happening right now in summer. One of the young students, somebody named Dell me suggested that families visit college campuses with their students to see what colleges offer for disability services so they can find the best way to help their child that's going into college. However, participants also recommended that helicopter parents who do everything for their kid do their kid a disservice by not teaching them to develop responsibility and their own toolkit to survive more independently into adulthood. So here's the delicate balance mom and dad, when you go to that initial meeting, you're there as a backup your child should be doing the speaking your child should be asking the questions. You're there as a backup, this is your time to help your child transition to that experience of college and the kids realize they know that they're going to be on their own. And they're going to be in situations where they have to make decisions and they have to follow through. And if they're not used to doing that it's problematic. So it's really really important at this point in their life, especially if they're in high school still, that you begin to prepare them for that transition. If you're not sure how to go about that, check out my episode that I did with Cathi Allen, episode number 55 Frontloading Your Teen’s Transition Plan with Cathi Allen because she specializes in helping families and supporting families in those transition years through high school. 

 

Cathi  10:02  

What I really like to share today, some of the experiences that my students have had coming to campus, what their expectations were, what the reality was, and how we can start to support these students. And as I put it front load their education before they come to campus, or creating a transition to campus, so that their actual learning is meaningful and beneficial to them as human beings, and can be sustained that the student wants to continue learning at that level. We've done this work before you seen the high dropout rates of all students in their first year,

 

Mickie  10:38  

the first year can make or break a student very, very easily. Absolutely,

 

Cathi  10:43  

it can. And that that self-image that a student gets as a learner, I am not cut out for this, I don't have this. I don't like it anyway. But I don't think that's necessarily true. I think it's more like I wasn't prepared for this. Know what to expect, wow, if I'd only had this in place when I was going to school.

 

Mickie  11:06  

So if you're lucky enough to still be in that position, she would be a really good resource and a good person and a good advocate to listen to now one of the things that I've noticed when I worked with college students transitioning from high school is that there were mistaken impressions about exactly what was going to happen because things change so dramatically going from high school into college and going from Ida to the ADA rule structure. So when you get a chance, you might want to revisit episode 5610 Things colleges will not do, because I realized that there are so many assumptions that students and parents come into college with that just are not the case. And so one of the first things that I've seen many, many students assume incorrectly was that disability services, and the faculty are in constant communication with each other. And that is just not true. And if you think about it, logistically, it doesn't make sense. But the reality is people think disability services and faculty members talk about the student back and forth. And they don't very, very few faculty members actually come to disability services to share their concerns about a particular student. They have their own issues to take care of, and their own responsibilities to take care of as faculty members, they may talk to the student about the struggles, they may even know the student has accommodations if the student gave them the accommodation memo, and they may be accommodating the student. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to be talking to Disability Services about the problem. And so Disability Services doesn't know there's an issue going on until they hear about it from the student. And more often than I care to remember I had students show up in April, May, at the end of the school year going, I'm not passing this class because I never got my accommodations. Well guess what, at that point, there's nothing they can do about it. They can address the problem at the beginning of the year, they can address the problem anytime throughout the semester. But if your child waits until the very last minute to suddenly announced that they hadn't been getting their accommodations all semester, they're kind of stuck with whatever the grades are that they come out with. So again, that's one of the things you have to anticipate that this teacher and disability services are not likely in communication and Disability Services can't fix a problem they don't know about now, several of the issues that the students had go back to how faculty and staff are trained to understand and support students with disabilities. Unfortunately, the reality is that many faculty and in particular adjunct faculty who are not present on campus all the time don't have a real good grasp of Disability Services, what they can do, what they are not allowed to do, what's breaking the law, they need training, and they need good training. And this might be a question to ask at your introductory meeting with Disability Services is Do you offer training to the faculty and staff? Because clearly, when you listen to Nora's comment, when we started this podcast, she assumed that the staff at the tutoring center was trained to work with students with disabilities, clearly they were not. So this happens a lot. And if you are finding yourself at a college where training is an issue or if you work at a college where training is an issue, you need to have a conversation with Disability Services about how to get that training done. Now I've done training for faculty and staff when I worked in those positions, but I've also put together some training materials online for peer tutors that anybody can have access to that once it in that training is in episode number 60 training or coaching college peer tutors and the entire training is there free to download for anybody that Once again, it talks specifically about supporting students with disabilities. And I'm also very, very willing to do online trainings with faculty for colleges that don't have the resources, online trainings, or webinars are one of the things that I can do, you simply have to reach out to me at Mickieteaches@gmail.com, M I C K I E  teachers@gmail.com. And I will be more than happy to make those arrangements for any colleges that need it. The relationship that students with disabilities form with their faculty members is critical to being a successful college student, and even a college class that has 60 or 70 students in it, or even 500 students in it. Every faculty member has office hours posted, and the student just needs to appear during those office hours and talk to the faculty member about their particular needs. When you have small classes and have a closer relationship with the faculty members. It's easier, obviously, but it's something every teacher does. The very first interview that I did in Episode 22 is Jimmy's LD story. Jimmy was one of my former students, and we still keep in touch, but he offered to share his own personal story about his learning disability. And what I noticed in that and if you listen, go back and listen to it. It's episode 22. He talks extensively about the importance of establishing a good relationship with your faculty member.

 

Jimmy 16:29  

One particular experience I can relate is I was taking a course at the university level, and I studied so hard for that midterm, that I forgot everything, including my name, I was able to only answer the first question. And I remember getting up answering three questions. Hand in my exam, walked out and started crying. Oh, wow. Because I felt that I failed the course. Sure. So I went home. I emailed the professor, I said to the professor, I need to withdraw from the course because I failed the midterm. He responds back he says, come see me my office. I think the class was a Tuesday Thursday course. This is see me on Tuesday after class. Okay, so that they went to class and I went to office hours. And I told him, I guess I have to withdraw goes to me. I'm a person of merit, you at least made the attempt to answer three questions. And the three questions that you try to answer you were on the right track. So how about this? How about we put this aside, and we work together on the questions that you did not get, but do you not finish? And I said okay, I appreciate it. Because he didn't have to do he could have just said, you know, you failed by? Yeah. But he took the time because he knew from the beginning and I was honest with him about my disability that you participate. You try you do the readings, I can see it. So not all professors are out to get you.

 

Mickie  18:09  

I'm upfront to say he struggled. He had a lot of issues with faculty members that he was able to resolve by reaching out and talking to them and forming those relationships. In episode number 45 College and Autism 102, Finding your Path with Charlie Kirkham. Charlie also talked about faculty relationships. And he talked about peer relationships as well. He shared his experiences with joining study groups in his classes and how much that enhanced his ability to form friendships and relationships even with his autism.

 

Charlie  18:49  

I’d add that that general policy of being open to opportunities is continuing to serve me well. I have this semester taken chemistry and it's a very challenging class. There's a number of difficulties that are associated with it. But I went to a study group and the Metropolitan State University of Denver's a commuter campus, and it's very difficult to kind of get friendships are established relationships there, but I attended these supplemental instruction sessions for the class, because I wanted to make sure that I was understanding the material and had people that would help me work on it with and you know, not only have I been able to get help with my class, but I've made a good friend who will be taking microbiology and chemistry to next semester with me and then beyond the supplemental instruction sessions, which have been very fulfilling and meaningful. I've reached out to professors that I will be taking classes with next semester and has established a reporter with them serendipitously, but also consciously is something I've pursued as a goal. And I feel very good about next semester, I think I'm well placed to do well in those classes.

 

Mickie  20:13  

That is an amazing, amazing episode, if you get a chance to listen to Charlie, he talks about the critical change that having those peer relationships made in his life and in his college life. So faculty relationships, and peer relationships are so very, very important for your child who is a college student with a disability, or who's becoming a college student. Now, if your child is still struggling, if they are not getting satisfaction, from Disability Services, the first thing they should do is take their issue to the dean, and talk to the dean and find out if anything can be done to solve their problem. But college students also have additional recourse, they can always file a complaint with the Office of Civil Rights and tell their story and how they did not get the accommodations services support that they should have gotten through the usual college channels. In the research study that I did today. It's a constant fight experiences of college students with disabilities. The students that were interviewed, also talked about effective supports, they talked about feeling empowered, they talked about the extended time for tests and assignments, the quiet testing areas, the breaks that they took during classes, the caption lists that they used, because of a hearing disability, they were appreciative of a valuable mentoring support system. So colleges, in many cases have mentors available, sometimes they come out in the form of a notetaker. And the note taker kind of sort of turns into their mentor. But whatever the reason, whoever the person is, it becomes a bonding experience and a friendship experience for your child. And that's a good thing. One of the things that I noticed in the comments in this article, that many of the complaints that the students had, in issues that they were facing, were things that disability services could have accommodated for, had they known about it. So it's very, very important from the get go that you remind your child, or you remind your student that when they are at college, and if they have a disappointment, if they hit a wall, if they're frustrated, if their accommodations are not being given to them, whatever the situation is, and they cannot resolve it with the faculty member, then they should go back to Disability Services, and talk to them about an additional accommodation as a possibility, or find out if disability services could help them in some way or another. Because Disability Services. What I've done in the past is I've actually scheduled meetings with the student, myself and the faculty member to sit down and talk about the students concerns and how they could be addressed and how they could be corrected. But I wouldn't have known any of that if the student had had not come back to me and told me there were issues going on. So that open line of communication between student and faculty, and students and Disability Services is critical. It's bottom line, critical for student success at college and we want your child, your students to be successful really and truly, that's what college is hoping for. Thank you for joining me today, I will have a I will have the links that you need for any of the resources that I mentioned today in the show notes. If you get a chance, listen to some of the other podcasts that I mentioned because I have covered many of these topics that the students in the article had issues with. If you have any questions for anything, you can send me an email at Mickie teachers@gmail.com. That's M I C K i e teachers@gmail.com And check out my website. Mickie teaches.com. In the meantime, have a great rest of the day and we'll talk again soon. Bye. Information contained throughout this podcast has been gleaned from my own personal experiences but to ensure accuracy please contact the Disability Services at the college of your choice to have firsthand information and the most up to date policies and procedures followed for your particular institution of higher education. The content in any of these podcasts is not intended as a substitute For information from legal educational or medical professionals always seek the advice of your attorney or qualified health care provider with any questions you may have with regards to illegal educational or medical concerns

 

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