#57 Math Differences from High School to College: Strategies for Preparation with Dr. Paul Nolting

If you are a parent of a teen with a disability planning to attend college, you will want to hear Dr. Paul Nolting, a national math expert on higher education, disabilities, and math. Dr. Nolting discusses the major differences and trends that he sees today between the math a student takes in high school and math in college, and why so many students (50%) fail math once they get to college.  Dr. Nolting not only talks about the struggles students have, but he offers helpful suggestions, techniques, and resources for parents and educators working with students.

Academic Success Press with Dr. Nolting's Winning at Math and Mathematics and Disability Handbook 

Academic Success website for all Dr. Nolting's resources

Reach out to p.nolting.phd@gmail.com for his free list of apps

Free brief ebook Insights from a College Disability Specialist from Mickie Teaches.

Limited Time Sale on my course College & Disabilities: 9 Changes from High School Every Parent Should Know

 

Transcript

Paul  0:00  
How much faster this college math go than high school. What happens is whatever you had in high school and one year, you get to learn in 16 weeks in college maybe. So basically, if you did the math is three to four times as fast as high school three to four times this really? Wow. Yeah, that's one thing I keep heading and that's don't get the oh, well, I didn't know that. You got to tell the students they think 13th grade. 

Mickie  0:28  
Well, hello, everybody. Today you are going to meet Dr. Paul Nolting. Dr. Nolting is a national expert in assessing disability aspects of math and learning strategies and the variables that affect Math Success. He is extremely skilled in identifying accommodations for math and core substitutions in math. He was a disabilities and math lab coordinator. And so what he's talking about today is how high school math differs from college math. He's going to talk about the disability end of it, but also to the general ed student in math, any student who is taking math in high school and suddenly finds themselves in a situation in college where, hey, this isn't the same anymore, and the changes that are going to happen in the differences that your child can expect. He conducts webinars on Math Success, math, study skills, tutoring training. He's the author of winning at math, a student's study skills, text, and also the math and disability handbook, which he will talk about throughout the podcast. I've known Dr. Nolting for well over 10 years, probably closer to 20. Now it's been a while, but I have always, always always gone to him for all things math related. So you're in for a special treat, because you're going to listen to the national expert on math today. So welcome to Math Differences From High School to College: Strategies for Preparation with Dr. Paul Nolting. Episode 57 on College, Disabilities, and Success with Mickie Hayes. The opinions in this podcast are my own, please reach out to your college physician or legal services for additional information.

Mickie  2:27  
Hi, Paul, how are you doing?

Paul  2:29  
Thank you for the introduction. Mickie and I've been working together for two years. In fact, all that done in the Sarasota area, she lives up into St. Pete Clearwater. And a lot of times we have state conferences, and we went there, I listened to her presentation, she listened to mine. And basically what we're finding out is that not this for students with disabilities, it's basically for all students, that the number one concern they have when they go to college is math. Now, sometimes they don't make that when they go there. But I'm gonna show you some data later on that will tell you what it really is. And what we have to do is a couple of things. help students understand that high school math accepted reviewer some of the AP courses and you get going, you know, doing calc one or two, it's totally different than college math. And what most people do is they come in, and I've heard this many times, yeah, I'm in I'm a freshman, it could be at a university or like we worked at community colleges. They'll say this is 13th grade. This is same thing. I know, I kind of slacked off in math. I know I can make it up at the end. I can get extra credit. I'm going to be successful. You know, and I've actually worked with so many students with disabilities. They said, Hey, I'm not gonna tell anybody I have disability because I'm in a new place. I'm just gonna say, Boy, that that was a mistake. It's usually not after they failed. The first test is after they failed the second test that come to me, we start talking about why fail to math tests. I go, Yeah, no, I'm going okay, what's going on? Oh, by the way, I'm LD. By the way. I'm ADHD. Even events came in with me lately. And I said TBI, right. He says, Yeah. Did you report it? No. Why didn't you report it? Well, I can't report a TBI when I was discharged. Because that means they'll keep me for another two weeks and I can never reenlist. So I just tell them I was fine. Even though I Ed blew me up, and my head went through the windshield, though everything I'm telling you is the truth. So what we're gonna look at is is the variables that contribute to mass success, how we can help you with those how you can prepare, what do you do when you get there? We're gonna hit you with some hard facts. I don't want to scare you with these facts. I want to warn you with these facts and if you're a parent, luckily if your child or administrator, advisor counselor notes some of these,

Mickie  5:02  
we you had mentioned There are particular variables that are going to impact and contribute to student's achievement in success. What are some variables that you're talking about? 

Paul  5:09  
I did my research many years ago about 20, some odd years ago, when I took students that were failing, or have failed Elementary Algebra One, the four times, and then my PhD dissertation on them, teaching them how to become successful in math, and that we came into a research project, of course, so this is what we found out, then this is what's going on now we can predict mass success littered is scary. But the thing is, if we predict it, we can change that prediction. Because you know, the variables. In the old days, about 50% of students grade was based on how much they know, based on their ability AACT PSATs. That's not true anymore. Since a lot of people don't even test in Florida. If you're live, you're going to go to intermediate algebra, that sort of thing in California Dental test at all, you just say I want pre Calc, well, that doesn't work sometimes. And then the research first was 25% of the grade was based on study skills that has now changed its 25%, to about 41% of the greatest based on self efficacy, study skills, anxiety reduction, but we call it non academic skills, and only about 25 or 20% is based on instruction. So what you're seeing now is a switch. We're not placing you, and that's the concern. Okay. Now, if you want to be placed, and I recommend you do ask for the placement test, but we're finding out is that the effect of characteristics of learnings math, and I'm not talking about learning multiplication tables, stuff like that, I'm learning how to study and learn math is the best predictor of success now. So we got to look at, we gotta look at all these variables, figure out which ones you can help your child with are now young adult, are you which way you help yourself with so this is the big change? Okay,

Mickie  7:05  
so the math study skills in and of themselves in learning those good study skills are really going to make an impact on that student's performance. Yes. What's the difference between high school and college math,

Paul  7:20  
it's based on disability issues. Sometimes when when you really have SLD, Specific Learning Disability, you got to know what characteristics is the short term working memory? Is it long term memory, if it's fluid reasoning, we have a real issue. I've had students with low scores and fluid reasoning that had difficulty getting through intermediate algebra and had a 3.5 GPA. So that's one thing. ADHD is the attention and they're not getting into their head. So that's one thing traumatic brain injury, TBI, guys, most of those are car accidents, they're not the vets coming back. There's they can't process and then the stress kills the anxiety, which kills working memory, that sort of thing and test taking language impairment. They don't understand the vocabulary, they can't process it fast enough. But intellectual disability is that basically a made have have the ability to do math. Now, we're not going to get into these on this mission of these because these can be future broadcast difference between high school and college math. Oh, my goodness, here we go. If you were with me, and one of my lectures, I'll give you the math question. How much faster this college math go than high school? What happens is whatever you had in high school, and one year, you're going to learn in 16 weeks in college, maybe

Mickie  8:42  
so one year of high school math is actually going to be covered in a 16 week course at college.

Paul  8:50  
Yeah, that's one semester or summer. That's six weeks.

Mickie  8:55  
Summers are very intense. Oh, my, yeah, a years worth of learning in six weeks is.

Paul  9:01  
So basically, if you did the math is three to four times as fast as high school, three to four times three. Wow. Yeah, that's one thing I keep heading in. So they'll get the oh, well, I didn't know that. You gotta tell the students. They think 13th grade. Another thing, like I said earlier is no placement tests. So I don't know where you're going to go. You know, you may get an intermediate answer. Are you prepared? I don't know. So that's something you got to talk about where you should be placed. Now think about the speed. Think about the speed. You're in classes three or two days a week. So where does most of the learning occur while in high school occurred in the classroom? Right? I didn't have any college man. No, it doesn't. It occurs outside the classroom. The instructors job is give you the information. Your job isn't to learn it.

Mickie  9:50  
That is absolutely correct. And that hits into that area of study study skills, where if you don't know how to study away from the classroom, you going to find yourself in all kinds of tough situations.

Paul  10:03  
Yeah, you are. And the only people I know that survive that are gifted in abstract reasoning, they usually become math instructor. They're so good. I've worked with so many math instructors that didn't study in college. It was instinctive to them. Yeah. How good? Are you an abstract? Oh, actually, okay. Look, I don't want some good, I can't do that. You can't do that. Make, you know. So the idea here is that you can do most of learning outside of the class. And it's sequential. It's, it's not like history. You know, it's builds it builds, it builds bills, now in high school, bills, bills, bills, and then if you get messed up, you go back, that is the instructor sometimes go back. Sure. They're not gonna do that in college.

Mickie  10:44  
No, they're not. They've got a plan, they've got to get through it, you

Paul  10:48  
said it, they got to get a plan, they got to get through it. We'll talk about that in a few minutes. A, B, and C, you're reading. These don't count. If in Florida, you make a D, hey, you're not getting credit for the math course.

Mickie  11:01  
That's right. It doesn't transfer. If you're at a community college and you get a D, it doesn't transfer to the university. So you get to take that all over again.

Paul  11:10  
And it doesn't count as graduation credit. So you won't even get to the university unless you are being accepted. So now we're scaring you a little bit. But these are the facts. Also, math is a foreign language. You have to learn the vocabulary. Yes, it's really tough. Math is like basically a puzzle like a sport. You got to practice. You got to practice and what else you got to do practice and high school practice. How many hours a week did you study math in high school? They didn't know. I said, How many hours a week did you study period? Only about three or 4%? Said over 10 hours? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Most of the people was between zero and five for everything for math. No, no, they don't worry about that. When they gave me the test. I knew how to do the answers. I go, how did he know that? Because it was the same thing on the homework set. It was the same problems. We had the homework, that's not going to happen in college. No way. No, you need to study about 10 hours a week in math and make an A or a B, now you're going A or B, all I want to do is make a C? Well, our resources very clear. C's predict failure. If you make a scene or intermediate algebra class, you haven't bought a 87% failure rate in college algebra. I did this all across the country, these colleges kept on saying well, why is our college algebra right? So bad? I said, Well, what happened to your students in intermediate? Oh, why should we check that because C's predict failure? Well, you got two groups, you got students placed in there, and you got students that basically had intermediate, and who's more successful, the students that are placed into college algebra, and then you get the other issue time management? Mom, Dad, you're not there. Okay. So it's like when you manage your time, where are you going to study when you get a party? What I'm saying is the SL D and ADHD and TBI group have problems with time management. And like I said earlier, the differences abstract reasoning. Another difference is cramming really doesn't work in college. And I had students that I crammed all the time and got A's I say, Good, I don't think it will. And another thing happens to and I know I get excited talking about this, it's socially acceptable to fail math. If you tell somebody in college, you're failing math, you get petty, this is true, and empathy and empathy. You're not alone. Yeah, yeah. Everybody feels math that? Well, you don't want to get into that, because that leads to less behavioral association with learning math. And it's not everybody has all these. We already talked about that students need more effective study skills strategies outside the classroom. Like I said, when I did my dissertation, the only thing I did is change study skills. I taught them how to study math, reduce their anxiety, and take math tests. And this significantly increased the pass rate of students.

Mickie  14:07  
Would you repeat that? Because I think that bears repeating, and so critical.

Paul  14:11  
Yeah. So what I did is I taught students maths study skills, anxiety reduction, test, taking skills, note taking skills, how do you do your homework skills? And it's not what you think it's different, because all these skills prepare you to do the test. And they had a significantly higher grades. And it didn't matter if they were in elementary algebra or count two.

Mickie  14:39  
I just finished interviewing a woman named Kathy Allen. She was, I think, two podcasts away from this one. And her whole concept was what she called front loading skills while you are in high school. And this is exactly what you're telling me the same idea that, in order to be a success in math, in college, you need those skills, you should be coming to college with those skills already happening, it would benefit the student who understands how to control the anxiety, who understands how to take a test correctly, who understands how to write notes, the more that a student can learn in the high school, the easier time they're going to have once they get to college. Correct.

Paul  15:29  
You are what you're saying? Oh, the correct, because here's what happens. And if you're listening, if you hear one thing, college is more difficult, the number one flunk out course, in college is math period, you got that period for students with disabilities and nine disabilities, what we're finding out is that the more preparation you can do in high school, and we're going to talk about that in a few minutes. And practice those skills that you can jump in what's gonna happen if you're in college algebra, or if you're the community college or an intermediate algebra, and during high school, they'll spend a week or two reviewing, yeah, not in

Mickie  16:11  
college, not in college, you're on your own to review.

Paul  16:15  
If you're in college algebra, they think you finished basically intermediate algebra last week. So you got to practice that. And I'll get to that in a few minutes. Here's some research. Anxiety goes up, period. Yes, anxiety goes up. Anxiety kills STEM programs, anxiety, kills math programs, and doing more math problems does not reduce anxiety, Tutoring and Academic Coaching helps. But a study asked students they said students perceive interference to college and mathematics success. What were they 71% said mathematics was number one. That's one strategic learning plans, which is study skills and strategies. The third was economics, which I totally understand math study skills, economics. And hold on to your hat. You write this one? What is the average pass rate, an intermediate and college algebra class? Now make it you know, but I'll tell him, it's 50%. Let me tell you, are you going? Why? In high school, they passed everybody? And my answer is, I've worked with high schools, I went to high school instructors, I did a whole deal down to Miami Dade with them. And it's very simple. You can't flunk it's hard to fail math in high school. Too many other extra credit that non college 50% failure rate? You got that? So it's not like Okay, maybe not. But there is ways to deal with that. You got to learn how to reduce anxiety before you get there. And then what most people tell me is, well, I don't have any anxiety. And I go yet, what do you mean? I said, I'm having sorry, yet. I go, What do you think's gonna happen? I said, I think what's gonna happen, you can figure out that final exam is 25% of your grade. Mm hmm. Yeah. And if you have a C going in there, that basically make you do the final you fail. I mean, there are different ways. Other hand, if you basically go in there with an A, you got it made. So the idea with the anxiety issue is practice relaxation techniques, get some counseling, help now and develop a plan, even if you don't have it now, who should probably have it? So what does anxiety do based on a disability issue? You got that issue? It kills what we call working memory, or now is called short term working memory. Sure, it kills your ability to bring information for long term memory and work on it like RAM in the computer.

Mickie  18:50  
I tell them it's like chewing on it. Yeah, chewing and the information. If

Paul  18:55  
you got it, it truly not it, but you don't have much to chew, because it takes away most of it. So I'm getting real excited about this stuff. Because I love working with this. And my whole goal in life is how to make people better. You know, students with anxiety say the structure doesn't care about me. This is a real quotes, some instructions to scare me. Some instructions is I just look at it. Look at the syllabus, and I freak out. These are real statements from students. Yeah, absolutely. You probably have another 100 more. So what we're getting at is if you don't have it, prepare for it. If you do have it, deal with it before you get there, just like Nicky said, now, I'm gonna give you a few test anxiety myths, and this will be yes, no, I'm not going to do all of them. Because this this is fun. Okay, test anxiety myths, yes or no students are born with it. No, no, you're not anxiety cannot be reduced. No, no. Well, and studies cannot be reduced. The answer is the answer is no. But the answer really is Yes, I can reduce Anxiety. Okay, gotcha. Any level anxiety is bad. No, anxiety goes up ability to calm if information goes up, you peak out at the top. That's why when you have these professionals and I'm in the zone, and I've been in the zone, okay, you're good. Little more anxiety drop off the cliff and can't remember your name. So if you try to do is optimize,

Mickie  20:21  
there are boundaries to the zone.

Paul  20:23  
Yeah, but you gotta have some. Yeah. Very intelligent students are in calculus don't have it. Sure. They would surely do. My worst cases where people in Calc doing nothing about it makes it go away. No, no.

Mickie  20:40  
No, no.

Paul  20:42  
Yeah. We already talked about this test anxiety affects working memory short term. Yes. Okay. Testing, does it cause you mental lapses during tests? Yes. Yes. That's how the students walk out there. Remember the problem? They walk back, you know, you know, high test things out is disability. Now, they are working on that one. Now. It's not there yet. But their research says it is high, because interferes with your ability to recall information, short term memory. They either deal with that as a learning disability or social anxiety disorder. Okay, now, now you're in the classroom. You're ready. You're walking in the class, we talked about difference between the high schools, now you're into the classroom, and this is what's different. Now people can cope. If you know ahead of time, you can cope, you're ready to go. What does that really mean? That means your your two days or three days either have been busy Friday for an hour, or Tuesday, Thursday for an hour and a half. And the students go are neat. But I have to be there five hours a day. Oh, my God. Yes. Yeah. So what are you gonna do with the other time? Oh, I'm going to party. I'm having a good time. Like, oh, well, you can do that. But how are you going to make up for the learning that the instructors not giving you like you had in high school, they're not going to spoon feed you.

Mickie  22:01  
They are not new. This is interesting to instructors, they might even check on the role they might have been there. When I used to teach high school. That was the first thing that the kids told me when I said what's the difference between high school and college? Well, in college, you don't have to really go to classes. If you don't want to, they're not going to take your attendance some professors do and some professors don't read the syllabus, find out find out,

Paul  22:25  
find out. And you're right, Mickey, I mean, you got to find out, of course, what happens. I don't want to go today. Well, you missed one day of class is like missing a week and a half in high school. You got that. And there are now called co requisite courses at whatever college I'm going to I'm going to ask about the CO requisite courses, the big movement is to get rid of developmental ed. Okay, right. Right. And for some of you, that is the non credit math courses, they used to be arithmetic, pre algebra, elementary algebra, actually intermediate algebra in every state, but Florida, intermediate algebra in Florida actually has elective credit. All the law states I work with, it's, it's developmental, it doesn't have any credit. And they're gonna put you into a course, if you're STEM based, which means, you know, science and math, science and

Mickie  23:16  
math engineering,

Paul  23:18  
they're gonna put you right into college algebra, or in California, they may put you right into precalc,

Mickie  23:23  
whether you're mathematically ready for it or not, right,

Paul  23:26  
because California, they don't get placement tests. And most people stop doing that. So what happens that puts you in that one, the CO rec means they'll have a separate course, they'll have like a three hour course, and a two hour lab to support you. So the idea is, I put you in college algebra, I work on that you go to two hours a week to another course, which is intermediate and practice up, those will be called just in time, needed skills, etc, etc. And then you have a five hour course, basically, which means that's probably a third of your credits. Now you, Nikki, Nikki knows what I'm talking about. Now, if you don't do well, you lost a third of your credits. And you'll probably be automatically on financial probation.

Mickie  24:09  
Yeah, if your GPA drops to a certain level, at a certain amount of for a certain amount of time, you can go on financial aid probation. And that is an entirely new complication in your life when you don't get your financial aid.

Paul  24:24  
Yeah, they'll give you once I was on the financial aid probation committee for years, you know, and we're given one semester, and maybe two if something really happened. Now, when we get to the disability group I'm going to do later on the podcast and sad sometimes that's good, because most mice so these students got stuck in intermediate or elementary algebra, they can bypass because the other two co requisites are basically stats and liberal arts topics math, which is love, which is math that basically for non math majors that's really helped. Okay, here we go, you'll have three tests at a file probably.

Mickie  25:05  
Right? That goes back to reading that syllabus in knowing what the professor is expecting. If you don't know that I've had I had one young man come to my office about two weeks into school was in an absolute panic. How do I get out of this class? I'm not passing, I'm never going to pass, what am I going to do? And first of all, there's nothing you can do at two weeks, once you're into school you're in, you're going to stay in for a while. But I told him, let me see the syllabus. Well, he had failed his first two tests in his mind. But in reality, he failed to small quizzes that were a very small percentage. And he just saw gloom and doom and panic and anxiety. And it came down to, he had no clue what the syllabus stated, and what the professor expected for a grade. And when he saw the difference that he finally understood what was going on. It helped his head it helped him relax, he ended up passing the course he was fine after that, but that initial panic, because he didn't know what was coming through. He did not read the syllabus, they have to do that. They just have to, yeah, and the parents should do it with them. The parents should read it with them. Yes, I'm a strong proponent of that be there so you can see what your son or daughter is actually going through and understand what your son or daughter needs, just in case you have to do a little nagging, even though technically you can't, because once they're 18, they're figuring out later. Another story for another day.

Paul  26:42  
And I know so much. It's hard to say everything. But here's the real point. And she made it very good. This doctor is not going to tell you for passing or failing, or in high school, they come up to say, Hey, you're not doing well, you better study in college. It's no and also one day you look around, you get a W you've been withdrawn because you haven't go to class. I mean, it's like,

Mickie  27:07  
it affects your financial aid, all that stuff.

Paul  27:11  
never scared you enough, we'll do some more. But here's the last, then we're gonna get some solutions because people are successful the first time around doing something when you get on campus or even before you get on campus. Once you get accepted, you're going to request the accommodations, educational and testing. When I do my next podcast, I'll tell you the difference. But shortly educational notetaking apps testing how much time extra time what's going on? You got to do that? And what disability office not the math instructor now with the math instructor offered? Yes. I have many OCR office of civil rights cases for the math instructor offered it. And then he took it away, then the person complaint OCR office civil rights, and they lost the loss, because they didn't go to disability resource.

Mickie  27:59  
He didn't get it, right. Yeah, absolutely. So

Paul  28:01  
what what happens here, when when you start looking at the schedule, find out where the quizzes are, you making already talked about that, you know, find out basically where the tests are. And I guarantee you by the third week, you can have a major test. Because that's just a normal way to teach math. When we start talking about preparing for college. As I'm doing right now, you know, reduce your anxiety, practice your note taking, we've already talked about a lot of this, practice time management, check the Disability Resource Office website, go look and see what it says what they, what they need, what documentation, you need. Study Skills, we already talked about that what can students do before they get there, when you get there, you're going to visit the Disability Resource office, you can talk to directors, you're going to set up the accommodations, you're going to go to the tutor center and find out when you can be tutored. And since go, I don't know if I need a tutor or not. Okay, I don't care. Go find out anyway. So when you need tutoring, it's not like I'm panicking. You know, I'm your instructor and me with them. And I don't want to be with an instructor. I can't tell. I can mimic what they're saying. I said, Look, you requested accommodations. They go yes. Well, they get to know you have a disability, they will know what it is. So it's not like you're going to tell them something they don't know. Just the first week or so you go talk to them and let them know what's going on. They really want to help you. Okay, now, keep all your old lecture notes, all your old homework, all your tests and review them when you get the college or before you leave. Or go in What do you mean said I want you to review all that ahead of time. Like I said earlier, what do you walk in that first day? It's not okay. It's high school. You've been gone. Now. We're starting right now. And do not be surprised as the first day of class you get a test. Yeah, probably won't count. They'll do an assessment on you. Practice your mastery skills. Double check the accommodations, you do all that kind of stuff, and you can get prepared. So you want to walk in there already knowing math, knowing the vocabulary already been up because we know math, that's like a foreign language. If you don't use it, you lose it. There's some resources you can go. The book I have has no math in it. Let me repeat that when

Mickie  30:22  
people get What do you mean? Which book are you referring to?

Paul  30:24  
This is the Winning at Math text. There's no math on it. There's actually a code in there where you can go and get access to my website to take a math study skills evaluation, with no math on it, it's how do you learn? So you know, immediately and it actually tells you what page numbers and like what Mickie was saying earlier, you practice that in high school now. So when you get to college, that works out well. Okay,

Mickie  30:51  
so cool. How would people get your Winning at Math book, you want to take a minute and explain that? What they

Unknown Speaker  30:57  
can do is you're going to put the web link into the...I call it chat, but you call it something else. It's the show notes. Okay, yeah, then it'll be a link that goes right to it, they can order it and we'll ship it to you. And then there's the Math and Disability Handbook. That's not for students, actually, for professors. And for disability coordinators, okay. However, you as a parent, you get that you'll probably know more than either one or the other ones. That's out now. Okay. So you can do that. And then if you get the mat and disability handbook, has separate chapters on ssld, autism, ADHD, intellectual disability, everything I mentioned earlier, chapter for Disability Services and a chapter for that. Now preparing what I'm going to do if you want, I got my email I pages of apps, I mean, apps apps for note taking apps or no cost all of a sudden, too.

Mickie  31:58  
Thank you. Will you give the listeners your email where you would like them to reach out to you? And I will also have that in the show notes. But yeah, to them?

Unknown Speaker  32:08  
Yeah, it's P dot Nolting. That's, p.nolting.phd@gmail.com  p.nolting.phd@gmail.com that's the fastest we want to take you. I went to school in Pensacola, Florida, which didn't have the best schools back on I can see when it was a long time ago. And I got accepted the fourth State University, which is pretty neat. Before I went, I went back and talked to my basically Algebra Two instructor because out No, I was doing math analysis. I said, What do you have next calculus? Can I come in the first two weeks in high school and prepare? So when I go to college? Because in college, the first thing the thing they do is give you a test or such a cetera? He said, Yes. That's way bizarre, but I did it. And did I learn much? No, but I learned the vocabulary. Again, I got back into the

Mickie  33:00  
thing, it was a refresher, it was refreshing to bring it to the front of your brain. It's back there it's buried. It's a way to bring it to the front of your brain. That's technique. And a lot of students are good friends with their high school teachers. It's not unusual for a student in high school to bond with their teacher. In many cases, not always, of course. But in many cases. And if you do have that kind of relationship, that's a great idea. Go back and visit,

Paul  33:26  
you got to practice you got to prepare. It's like when I played sports, I ran track and played football. We never went out there before warming up, right. I did later on and pull the hamstring that wasn't good. But But the idea here is that your warm up, you got to find your classrooms ahead of time, you got to find the Math Lab ahead of time, you got to be ready to go. And you'll be ahead of the game. Because people are successful. There's hope.

Mickie  33:54  
Paul and I are going to do another section that's specific to disabilities that will follow up in the near future

Unknown Speaker  34:03  
SLD or LD I can do general and then I have other people that know more about ADHD and more about other disabilities, and they'll probably follow up. So if you follow us, you will be talking to the national experts.

Mickie  34:18  
Paul is not kidding. He is a national expert. And he knows national experts, and they will be part of the podcast. So I'm really looking forward to this very, very much, Paul, I really appreciate your time today, and your expertise and your willingness to share your knowledge and your information with parents out there because the parents are hurting. And what you've offered them today is a look into the reality of math in college, but also some of the ways you can achieve and accomplish those math goals with or without a disability. And that's critical because the skills that he's given you today really work with Any student who is taking math in college, and math is a reality for every single college student in one way or another, they're going to have to look it in the eye and see what's coming. So Paul, thank you very, very much. Your all's information and links and resources will all be accessible on the show notes to today's podcast. So thank you, Paul. It's been wonderful. Thank you. Join us again, we will be featuring Dr. Nolting. In another episode shortly on learning disabilities in math. And I will also be featuring a couple of his colleagues on other types of disabilities as they relate to college and math. So you should have a really good sense of how you can help your child who has a disability when they are heading to college and prepping and getting ready for math. In the meantime, take a moment to peek at my website, that's mickieteaches.com mickieteaches.com. And my email is mickieteaches@gmail.com. Check out all the other blog posts and information that I have on my website, you can get a free ebook insights from a learning disability specialist that has about 30 questions or so that you should make sure you know the answers to Once your child has to college so that you and your child are prepared for the surprises that college may have in store. And you might want to consider checking out my course college and disabilities, nine changes from high school that every parent should know. And that information is also on my website. And I will have the links to both the course and the ebook in the show notes today, along with Dr. Nolting's links. Thank you for joining us today and I look forward to talking to you again soon. In the meantime, have a great rest of the day. By information contained throughout this podcast has been gleaned from my own personal experiences, but to ensure accuracy please contact the Disability Services at the college of your choice to have first hand information and the most up to date policies and procedures followed by your particular institution of higher education. The content in any of these podcasts is not intended as a substitute for information from legal educational or medical professionals. Always seek the advice of your attorney or qualified health care provider with any questions you may have with regards to legal educational or medical concerns.

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